First message to the group
I found the TMS site today after researching my issues with anorgasmia, the opposite of premature ejaculation. I've always felt (and have been told) that it's considered a good thing to be able to control yourself in intercourse to help the woman enjoy herself more and reach orgasm more often with the man and all that. So I just kind of ignored the issue, even though many times (like half the time) I've had (or should I say tried to have) sex with women I'd get asked if I was enjoying myself, if I like sex, or even the woman getting frustrated at not being able to get me to ejaculate easily. I ignored it because I associated not being able to ejaculate easily during normal intercourse as being able to control myself better than most guys.
Effective this minute, I'm done with TMS. I know it's going to be a bit tough, but I'm going to tough it out because this is truly affected me in more ways that anything else I can think of right now. It's so bizarre, I can't imagine how many other guys out there would have better lives if they knew what a serious problem this is. And, it's not likely something to get fixed easily as the means by which a guy masturbates is not something he would even talk to a doctor about.
I'm 31 years old. I don't know if I might even be one of the oldest guys who's signed up here. (Ed.: Not even close!) When I was 12 or 13, I started masturbating the TMS way, not in the more extreme way some guys do, just with a soft object while on my stomach, most likely while in a bed, most likely with a pillow. Like some, at that age I didn't even know what masturbation was, and once I started doing it that way, it seemed normal to me. When I later found out that most guys masturbate with their hand, I just figured it didn't matter since masturbating is a private thing anyway, and it felt good the way I did it.
In fact, from that very beginning, I've never once masturbated using primarily my hand. I'd tried a couple times, found that I wasn't getting the expected stimulation, and kept on going the TMS way. I had a subtle intuition through the years that it might be a bad thing to masturbate this way, but didn't realize how devastating until now.
I hadn't lost my virginity until my late 20s. I must have masturbated the TMS way over 7,000 times in my life before having full intercourse with a woman. And let me tell you, that first time sucked. The first night with her, I explained that I was just tired. She was willing to try again a second night. I again couldn't ejaculate (but at least was able to please her) but the next morning finally I got my myself thinking in about 1000 horny ways and finally was able to ejaculate through missionary, then quickly switching to stroking between her breasts for a few seconds. I just chalked it up to first-time inexperience and figured my next sex with a woman would be "normal." Well, it wasn't. I've only been able to ejaculate with half the women I've been with and, for the ones where I managed, it took literally 90 minutes of constant stimulation and extra effort on the woman's end to stimulate me emotionally.
The women don't know WHY, I certainly couldn't explain it, and some either though it was their fault or there was something actually wrong with me. Not a good feeling. And, still, I didn't think to associate with the WAY I masturbated, I kept thinking that all I need is just more experience sleeping with women, and maybe to masturbate less often. Well, I was wrong.
What finally got me to the TMS site today was something kind of embarrassing, but I'll share with you guys because I think so many of you can relate more than any other place I could go to share the experience. I broke up with a girlfriend about 3 months ago. She wasn't with me for too long, anyway, perhaps she got frustrated with the constantly long sessions or my regular inability to ejaculate. So, in the past 3 months I got a bit frustrated seeing out new companionship, dated a number of girls, but nothing with any of them led to having sex. Perhaps it was due to the eagerness I vibed to seek out more sex right away because I associated having more sex with women as a way to solve the problem.
Anyway, I got frustrated and last night went to see an escort. Never did that before. I needed a normal sexual release and thought if I could have an extremely attractive women spend a couple of hours with me, doing nothing but focus on my sexual satisfaction, I'd get my head straight again. What actually happened was she got (silently) frustrated with my not ejaculating even after 90 minutes and she spent the last 30 minutes of it basically giving me a hand job (even with a tighter grip) without any results. I explained it away as I don't have as much of a desire as most guys to come, that I enjoy the experience more than anything. When the reality is I want to ejaculate more than anything, especially with a woman, and the only reason I explained it was I was too embarrassed to tell her that I simply can't ejaculate easily, even with the most gorgeous & stimulating woman. And, this morning, I woke up with the sorest penis I've ever had in my life, she pretty much stroked it raw.
So I knew from last night that something was wrong. I figured it must have something to do with the way I masturbate. Thank God for the web. I know I'm new here, but I think I'm feeling right now what all of you must have felt when learning about TMS. I just wish I didn't have to go through nearly 2 decades of this habit before finding out what a serious problem it is. In some way, I believe it even affected my ability to lose my virginity early in life, and perpetuated a mindset that isn't attractive to women.
I don't know what else to say, I'll be reading the messages here to encourage me and hope you guys don't mind an old person trying to relate while he gets through this.
The moderator responded:
You're not so old. A lot of older men are here, including me. I was 37 when I got cured, three years after I found out about TMS but only two weeks after I became determined to quit. In the meantime, I started this group and guys were getting cured all the time but inexplicably the leader still had TMS.
I don't think you're in such bad shape. From your letter you've had a lot of sexual success for someone with two serious problems, TMS and late virginity. I think you'll be cured soon. Good luck with the program.
The next day, the correspondent wrote back:
I'm now 2 days in without masturbating. I don't think I'm going to try today, even if I wanted to because I'm still slightly sore from the escort jacking me raw the other night (no success, ouch). :-) Usually I'm pretty horny all the time, so I know 7 days is way too long for me to go without masturbating. My limit is probably 3-4 days, so I'll try the "normal way" on day 4.
Another couple of thoughts occurred to me which may have an affect on this, and maybe some guys can relate?
The first thought is I was, indeed, a late bloomer as far as losing virginity. I think part of the dysfunction is mental in that regard because of lack of experience and anxiety with performance. I haven't had a regular female partner who is patient, certainly don't have one now, so it frustrates me a bit that I'll be working on this on my own and worry about the first time I'm with a woman after "curing" myself. I'm wondering if any guys who follow this list have successfully dealt with that sort of anxiety?
The second thought is I've been taking finasteride since before losing my virginity. Finasteride is the active ingredient in Propecia, which is a drug that helps prevent thinning hair & hair loss. Finasteride (in a higher dosage) is also the active ingredient in Proscar which is a prostate-related drug. Drugs with finasteride have a side effect with some men (like 1-4%) reporting loss of libido. I didn't think I was affected since I was able to successfully masturbate and had no loss of libido (horniness), no different than before. But, it could also be a mitigating factor and am going to stop taking it for a while until I get this TMS thing resolved. I did a web search and found there was a rare link between finasteride and the sort of sexual dysfunction related to TMS guys.
So I have 3 things to work through. Halting the use of Propecia (easy). Changing my masturbation behavior (difficult, but I'll do it). Expanding my sexual experience with women. This is mostly a mental block and might take the longest to overcome, or it might be resolved with the next woman I'm with. I'd read up today on the other factors for men which causes retarded/delayed ejaculation through intercourse and I seemed to fit those descriptions as well (controlling personality, unwillingness to "let go" completely during sex, intimacy, that sort of thing). Part of all this is mental and related to trust issues with women, so I imagine some other guys here might be able to relate to the inability to be fully intimate with a woman.
A question for guys who've finally successfully done it the "normal way"... How in the heck do you keep from making a mess when jacking off while sitting up? Sometimes I travel and am wondering how to not make a mess everywhere when I don't have my familiar environments available.
The moderator's response:
You might be overanalyzing your situation. Don't worry about all that stuff about women and finasterade and making a mess. Just concentrate on curing your TMS. That other stuff can wait until after that.
I don't sit up much. You can point it back toward you a little while sitting up. That's one more reason why the best way to learn is lying down. The landing spot is predictible then. And you can always wear a condom if you're really worried.
The correspondent had some good news two days later:
Took 45 minutes of working it but finally did it the "correct way." Damn, that was pretty interesting. I can't believe it's taken me 18 years to finally do it the right way.
I wasn't as horny as I normally am the past couple days. I think partially the trauma of having the escort from a few days ago jack me off too rough after about an hour of normal sex (oral, her on top, missionary, and doggie) and also because I really wanted to succeed in doing it right. I know, not the right mental attitude going in (focus should be pleasure) but it's something I really wanted to fix after finding the TMS site. So the past few days I haven't had any real (full) erections, just a couple mornings with half wood. But technically the last time I ejaculated was last Monday so that's about 6 days and I discounted the escort session as not counting even though I was rock-hard & being worked on for nearly 90 minutes (no result for me). When I got home from that something told me not to bother jerking off until I found out what my dysfunction might be. Thank God for the web.
So I had all my stuff ready - plenty of K-Y lube, towel, pictures, video, audio, the works. I tried at first without any external stimulation except lying down on my back with my eyes closed & swapping between hands trying to figure out what "felt" right or was more pleasurable. Ironically, I'm right handed and it turns out I was more stimulated using my left hand. A side-effect I hadn't anticipated was the K-Y jelly getting "cool" on whatever hand wasn't being used and when I'd swap it would feel cold on my dick until I stroked a few times.
- 5 minutes getting hard (mental block was keeping me from getting hard quickly)
- by 10 minutes in was fully erect and stroking
- 10-20 minutes listening to audio sounds of a woman having an orgasm (this actually helped me with mental pictures)
Finally, although I could feel sensations that told me I was getting closer I had to revert to watching videos. What I chose were videos which all ended in the guy masturbating into a girl's mouth or on her face and I watched to match the action imagining myself masturbating into the girl's mouth/face. WOW - that whole fantasy really made the sensations better as I stroked and I could finally feel myself on the verge but I still couldn't tell how long it would take because I'm so used to my timing TMS style. At one point I thought I was about to come but it was just a sort of base orgasm. I thought I might have not understood the feeling (I didn't see any pre-cum) so I kept going and a few minutes later I finally felt it and instinctually everything happened right.
During the whole time I had either my eyes closed or watching the video, barely any looking at my penis because I wanted to focus on the sensations more than what it looks like to be masturbating. Except in the end when I came.
I know I kind of cheated with the audio and videos, but I think that was better than having a session take so long that I'd eventually lose the erection and have blue balls for the rest of the day with an insidious addiction feeling to do it the TMS way just to finally get myself off. But that would be totally the wrong thing.
It took 45 minutes... Wow, I can't believe so many guys get off this way in 5-10 minutes. I could never even get off TMS way in under 10. In any case, I'm not ultimately shooting (pun) for minutes, as I rather enjoy being able to last a while, especially with women. I just want to fix the dysfunction of not understanding the sensations of intercourse enough to be able to come more predictably. It really has been frustrating to only come sometimes when with women, simply because the sensations are much different (ultra-soft, much less friction) but now I see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Next session, I think 3 days from now, I'll try to not use any audio or video at all, even if it takes the same time or longer.
It's so strange how amazing it is to finally do things this way. For you guys out there also trying to get through this - my recommendation is LOTS of lube and lots of quiet. In the middle of my session I was disturbed by outside noises from my neighbors starting & warming up their crappy old car and a phone call (which of course I didn't answer but was too late to turn the ringer off).
I can probably cut 5 minutes from the time by waiting until I'm really horny rather than an arbitrary time. Also, having a more quiet environment. And getting used to less stimulation from videos, focusing more on the fantasies and, more importantly, the sensations.
The moderator responded:
Congratulations! I knew you could do it. Keep up the good work. Doug
Two more days later, the correspondent posted an update:
After only the second "normal" way success today, I'm starting to understand my body much more than I probably did in the past, especially in knowing most definitely what kind of sensations and buildup cause me to eventually come. They're not what I thought. I used to think the best sensations had to do with the bottom length of my shaft being stimulated/stroked but it turns out it's the area just below the head and a slightly larger area just below the head in the front - the front being the top of the shaft on the bottom side of the dick. No wonder I wasn't getting off fast enough with women, I wasn't stimulating the area around the tip nearly as much as the rest of the dick.
Today, only 2 days after doing it the normal way for the first time, I was horny and determined to do it the normal way again. Managed to have a slow start, maybe 5 minutes to a full raging hard-on, but only 20 more minutes to finally come. Not bad compared to 45 minutes 2 days ago. It didn't seem like as much volume as a couple days ago, not as intense an orgasm, possibly because the last time I'd masturbated I hadn't ejaculated in 6 days. Maybe also now that I understand the mechanics of it am able to speed things along and focused less on the intensity of the pleasure.
I still had to revert to watching videos, tho. I can't seem to stay hard for very long without an external stimulus... I guess I have to work on my fantasies. I'm going to try again tomorrow.
I'm starting to get the itch to try with a woman. No partner, though, so either I'm in for a few weeks of dating half a dozen women or ... we'll see!
- 8 days ago, last TMS
- 6 days ago, attempt at partner sex, no ejaculation after 90 minutes
- 2 days ago, first "normal" attempt at masturbation, with visual aids, success in 45 minutes
- Today, second "normal" attempt at masturbation, with porn, success in 25 minutes
- 1: 15 minutes without visual aids
- 2: ejaculating with a woman in 25 minutes or less
Funny, I was reading a site the other day that was talking about how to better work a woman towards orgasm and the author was describing what is essentially allowing the woman to masturbate herself on your penis and pelvic bone, with little thrusting of your own except when in a male-thrusting position like missionary and then to match what the woman was doing to herself. It's interesting because it put a spin on this that I never thought of before - that sex is essentially mutual masturbation. And because the sensations of sex to TMS guys doesn't match very well the sensations of their masturbation ritual, the pleasure is disconnected. I know I come more quickly if I get a lot of positive feedback from the woman that she's extremely aroused, so holding back at first on the thrusting to watch how she masturbates herself on the penis and pelvic bone will give a better picture of how to then bring her to orgasm in other thrust-oriented positions.
I don't know about other guys but when I'm having sex I've been used to thrusting almost all the time, barely let the woman do her own pelvic thrusting and I think that's part of the associated problem. Since, as TMS guys, we'd be used to thrusting our pelvis rather than keeping the pelvis still while our hand does most of the work. But, when we thrust in sex, it barely feels the same as TMS masturbation and we don't get into it as much. The woman also is probably missing many sensations that would engage her more and the sessions peter off without either partner truly satisfied - the women not having orgasms or getting bored and the man getting frustrated at the time to ejaculate or not ejaculating at all.
The moderator responded:
Good! The main design flaw with TMS is that the base of the penis becomes too important. The part you like now is called the frenulum, by the way. (The part just below the cleft in the head.) Doug
The correspondent had this to say the next day:
I thought this would take me weeks, at least a month, to get right. There is just something so instinctual about masturbating the "right" way!
Today got off within 17 minutes, total time from no erection to ejaculation, minimal visual aids. :) I even tried with a thin condom and minimal lube and had jacked off just yesterday, only 24 hours since.
Only thing left for me now is to get used to this with less lube when not using a condom and also in places other than the bedroom like tub or living room.
Interesting mental side effect is that my usual urge to masturbate TMS style hasn't disappeared but seems to be overridden by the urge to only do it that way when humping with a woman, like when the urge arises my mind focuses on wanting a woman rather than just wanting to jack off TMS style. I can't explain the urge and how it's different than before, but it's starting to make sense now why non-TMS guys have more sexual partners in life ... there's a shift in my libido I can't explain. Maybe it's my excitement and anticipation to finally have regularly "normal" intercourse with women.
It's as if masturbating the "normal" way seems to provide a more pleasurable/smoother orgasm, just not as intense as TMS and, also, the "normal" way doesn't seem as complete as TMS (but that's good! libido can focus more on seeking women out for added pleasure), can't explain fully what I mean other than TMS guys (myself included) might treat TMS as closer to real sex because of the body position and motions. So we trick our minds into making it OK to not seek out women as regularly as non-TMS guys.
I guess you can tell by now that I'm an introspective thinker, and exploring the nuances helps me understand how to improve and garner better experiences for myself later.
Bring on the womens!
Eight days after his first post, the correspondent declared hiimself cured:
I didn't talk about any of this TMS stuff with her, wanted to resolve this inside my own mind.
Since my personal TMS method had been much less "traumatic" than many guys (I never used hard surfaces, almost always pillows, and typically only masturbated once a day), I think a lot of instinct more easily kicked in recently once I got myself switched to the normal method of masturbation.
The other night, after cutting down to 17 minutes with condom & minimal visual aids, I got horny again within 7 hours and managed to masturbate normally even then in about the same time, with condom, minimal visual aids.
I figured I was ready for intercourse with a woman again. So I held off on masturbating for 36 hours and met up with a girl today and what followed was probably the one of the shortest sexual encounters I've ever experienced, but the most satisfying and pleasurable orgasm ever.
- 20 minutes foreplay
- 45 minutes intercourse
We tried lots of positions and, since finally understanding the hot zones on my own penis and how to experience pleasure without the TMS style thrusting, I was able to direct her towards more satisfying thrusting, stroking, and touching. This just felt like better sex. So finally I had her lay on her stomach with her legs together and I came to a satisfying completion inside her (with regular condom on) and the universe finally felt in order.
I would have liked to have had her in a different position when coming, to avoid the stomach-down "thrust" prone position, but I think it was still fine because I felt myself on the verge of being able to ejaculate in other positions like doggie, and held myself off to extend the pleasure of the intercourse. And, also, I enjoyed oral sex much more today than I have in the past - I simply had her focus on the end of my dick rather than the whole shaft and focused on the sensations there. Wow.
I know I can improve this even more to finally be able to have "quickie" sex (like 5-10 minutes), but in the meantime I'm happy to finally have reasonable control over the timing of my intercourse and ejaculations with women. Now I no longer have to explain why I'm not coming (and no more insecurity from the women thinking either I'm not attracted to them or they're doing something wrong) and can be the great lover I know women seek out.
I can't believe this all came down to method of masturbation, some stupid and seemingly inconsequential unconscious choice made nearly 2 decades ago.
The moderator responded:
Congratulations! I only wish you had used a more conventional position. Orgasming only when using a bizarre position isn't an indicator that you're adjusting to intercourse post-TMS.
Three months later, the correspondent updated his progress:
Hello everyone, I haven't submitted any messages here for a while. I wanted to send along an update on my current status.
I'm 31 and had been masturbating the TMS way ever since I was a kid. Three months ago, I realized this was likely a problem and found the TMS site, read through different people's experiences here, and shared my goals with everyone. Since then, I've not once masturbated in the prone position. Initially, it took a lot of willpower, but what kept me on track was knowing my sexual satisfaction with women would benefit. And it has!!
Now I can confidently say that I get just as much, if not more, pleasure masturbating in the "normal" way, and have been able to do it outside a bedroom environment. I still need some lube (who doesn't?) (Ed.: Uncircumcised guys!) and have some dependence on visual aids, but otherwise pretty normal. I gather it still takes me a bit longer to masturbate than someone who's never had TMS, but it's in the right comfort zone for me now and I'm fantastic in my stamina with women. They love it - lasting a decent amount but still being able to ejaculate when I get into the intercourse - in normal positions. There have only been a couple times in the past 3 months where I couldn't get into the right rhythm to ejaculate, but those times I was just tired and had sex very recently (the day or night before) or I was just simply nervous with a new woman.
I think what helps is not remembering what the prone position feels like anymore, so if I'm ever tempted again to try I always think "But that will feel weird compared what I'm doing now."
My ejaculations now are much more intense, and my spurts are amazing. Perhaps from years of having my body used to the prone position (bottom shaft of penis under pressure during orgasm), and now switching to normal, my ejaculate spews like a powerful water gun. You have no idea how pleasurable it is to spurt huge loads onto a woman's face & body, sometimes overshooting her by a few feet! The look of amazement and pleasure on their faces has been well worth the willpower it's taken to change. I no longer feel any pressure or anxiety about being able to cum with a woman, inside or out, and the experience of sex is so much better than before.
Oral sex is amazing. Nothing in the world can compare. My experience with it in the past was so-so, barely being able to feel a thing, and almost never cumming from it. Now, it's like the most enjoyable thing in the world, and I can control how long I want to last - from a few minutes to nearly 20, if the woman can handle sucking for that long.
A few things:
- Still trying to figure out the best way to keep from making a mess while also maintaining optimal pleasure ejaculating at the end of a masturbation session. Still haven't done it standing up in the shower. What I've been doing is using lube and when I'm ready to come just grab a couple of tissues and wrap around my dick. I just don't like coming on my stomach since I spurt far, and it always dribbles off one side or another which is a pain to keep from hitting the furniture. I makes me think twice about sitting on other people's furniture LOL!
- Still haven't masturbated while a woman watches. I feel I can probably do that now without any anxieties, just haven't done it yet since I'm having so much fun with so much else :-) I have, however, had 2 women successfully masturbate me (hand jobs) and both times were after already cumming normally and I was too tired for typical intercourse.
What an adventure this has been. I can say for sure I'm a new man now. Normal in every sense and capable of experiencing and giving pleasures I've barely been able to in the past.
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